Getting discouraged

[JohnDinSD]

Last Nov. I started a four gallon pico and everything went extremely well. After a while I started to think about upgrading and in May I set up a a 34 gallon solana. Since then it has just been down hill. the only organisms thriving in my tank are flatworms, nudibrancks and aiptasia. I have treated the tank with flatworm exit, which lowers the numbers for a time. I treated the aiptasia with aiptasia control today and I have no idea what to do about the nudibrancks which I did not notice until a week ago. I have spent so much time and effort, but it just seems to be one problem after another. I feel that I am being irresponsible by killing animals that are endangered.
I would really appreciate some good advice.
Thanks,
John.

[h20poloman2]

Welcome to the board and sorry to hear about the frustration. Unfortunately the bulk of us deal with similar issues throughout the hobby if not worst.

If you can list all your equipment and maybe post some pics we can probably start giving you better advice on what to do. I have a flatworm issue right now as well so I'm feeling your pain. Lucky for you it's only 34g compared to my 240+. :)

Aiptasia is a normal problem, definitely keep your eye on the results of the aiptasia x. Depending on your flatworm problem if you treated the entire tank with FWE you could have killed corals and fish due to the toxin they release when they die. These are two articles I've been reading and will most likely move forward with in the near future.

http://www.melevsreef.com/flatworms.html

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1379099

[Jessy]

Last Nov. I started a four gallon pico and everything went extremely well. After a while I started to think about upgrading and in May I set up a a 34 gallon solana. Since then it has just been down hill. the only organisms thriving in my tank are flatworms, nudibrancks and aiptasia. I have treated the tank with flatworm exit, which lowers the numbers for a time. I treated the aiptasia with aiptasia control today and I have no idea what to do about the nudibrancks which I did not notice until a week ago. I have spent so much time and effort, but it just seems to be one problem after another. I feel that I am being irresponsible by killing animals that are endangered.
I would really appreciate some good advice.
Thanks,
John.

Welcome to the boards, wish it was under better circumstances. First off let me extend you the invitation to join us on Tuesday evening at our monthly meeting. I am sure many people there will be more than happy to answer more of your questions in person (typing them all out kinda sucks sometimes).

Now on to your problem.

For aiptasia, you may have to resort to extreme measures to clear your tank of them if it is too bad. But before you rip your tank apart and bust out the blow torch (http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1417335&perpage=25&pagenumber=1) you can try peppermint shrimps, they are hit and miss... but if you get 10-15 you should see some effect, just feed your tank very very lightly for a while. Like maybe spot feed your fish so there is no extra food in the tank for the shrimps to eat other than the aiptasia.

What kind of flat worms are you dealing with? Acro eating flat worms or just the little red/brown guys? The little red ones are ugly yes, but they aren't REALLY going to hurt your tank at all. So don't stress over them too much and do something that's going to kill your tank to rid yourself of them.

What kind of nudi's do you have? Zoa eating nudi? Monti eating nudies? I don't have much experience with any of these, but I do know that some wrasses are GREAT for nudi pest control, and many other kinds of pests. I have a yellow coris wrasse and it is always full and happy and I don't feed that much, so i know he's got to be hunting his own food. For a solana, i'd suggest getting one yellow coris they are cheap and super fun to watch. You'll need sand and a top. (if you want to insure they won't jump, I don't have a top, but I'm not smart)

HTH

[JohnDinSD]

Thanks for the replies. I feel a little more positive today, I have been treating the aiptasia for the past few days and it has made a huge impact. I put some burghia in the tank a couple of weeks ago, but I don't think they survived long.

So heres the set up:
The aquarium is a 20x20x20 all in one tank (Solana) with a "sump" built into the back similar to the Aquapod.
Stock skimmer
Stock return pump rated at 400 gph.
AquaEuro 1/10 hp chiller with Maxijet 1200
Stealth 100W heater
150w Sunpod with 14k Pheonix bulb

Filtration:
30 lbs live rock.
Black aragonite sand bed 1.5-2" deep.
Stock skimmer, seems to work well.
1/2 cup carbon changed every 2 weeks.
1/4 cup Rowaphos changed monthly.

Parameters:
S.G. 1.025
Temp 78F
PH 8.3-8.4
Po4=0
No2=0
No3=2.0
Ca=450 and dKH=10 with daily additions of B-Ionic.
Iodine=0.01-0.03 with daily addition of potassium iodide.
Mg=1300
I use Tropic Marin Pro-reef mixed with R/O water.
The tank has been running since May.

I add 4ml Reef Solution Daily.
I spot feed LPS with mysis and cyclopeez.
I feed the tank one or twice a week with BioPlankton and ComboVital at about 1/10 recomended dose. Corals seem to like the ComboVital, especially the hydnophora.

The main issues:
Hydnophora with tissue recession. I gave it an iodine dip (30 drops/gallon x 10 min.), followed by 3 x 15 sec fresh water dips about 1 week ago. His condition has not improved, but remains the same.
Hammer that opens some days and not others. He is actually doing better, he barely opened for about six weeks.
I had a purple haze montipora frag, that began to develop white and brown patches. I observed it at night with a flash light and saw nudibrancks? which I think have infected the whole tank. I see them in the sump area where it is dark, but have yet to see them on the corals.
Flatworms. I don't have swarms of them, but there are about 15 on the glass right now.
Dendrophyllia with tissue recession and color loss. I feed mysis shrimp at least EOD. I have just moved him to a low light area, but I have seen them do well under intense light at LFS's.
Problems posting pics. I caught two of the nudi's, I will bring them to the meeting.

[h20poloman2]

John, thanks for all the info. Sounds like you have a nice little Solana set up over there. As for the photos, use photobucket to upload your pics and then copy and paste the picture links to your thread and they will appear. Very easy to do and you don't have to worry about picture size converting.

Sometimes just venting is therapy in itself for helping release some of the frustrations of this hobby. Sorry that I won't be at the meeting tonight to meet you but I'm sure there will be plenty of folks that will help ID the nudis and give some good advice.

[RedEye]

Flat worms love low flow areas
IMO I would recommend a koralia powerhead or something to boost the amount of flow

Invest in a yellow coris wrasse, they love nudis like they were candy, flatworms too sometimes
Nothing is FOR SURE when it comes to fish, but mine helped ALOT

[JohnDinSD]

Well, not sure what happened last night, but when I came home at 1400 today the tank looked great. The hydnophora is puffed up and it looks like new tissue is growing back. My duncanopsammia has exploded into a mass of new polyps, my euphylia's are opening up and my micromussa is expanded showing his full colors. I thought the corals were looking better yesterday, but today I can really see a difference. I have changed 2 things this week. I reduced the dose of reef solution from 4 ml per day to 2 ml/day. I reduced it because I was having to clean algae of the glass daily. After the meeting on Tuesday I started adding 1 drop of BioPlankton every day, I was doing it once a week or so. Is it possible that these changes could have such a dramatic effect?

I am presently trying a Nano Koralia for extra flow.

Thanks,

John.

[Jessy]

Well, not sure what happened last night, but when I came home at 1400 today the tank looked great. The hydnophora is puffed up and it looks like new tissue is growing back. My duncanopsammia has exploded into a mass of new polyps, my euphylia's are opening up and my micromussa is expanded showing his full colors. I thought the corals were looking better yesterday, but today I can really see a difference. I have changed 2 things this week. I reduced the dose of reef solution from 4 ml per day to 2 ml/day. I reduced it because I was having to clean algae of the glass daily. After the meeting on Tuesday I started adding 1 drop of BioPlankton every day, I was doing it once a week or so. Is it possible that these changes could have such a dramatic effect?

I am presently trying a Nano Koralia for extra flow.

Thanks,

John.

It was probably a good idea to reduce the Reef Solution. I've heard from people about excessive algae growth with that product. I was sold that product as a n00b walking into AW and being told that, "OMG you're NOT dosing Reef Solution!! Your tank must be SOO DEPLETED AND DYING!"

I, of course, didn't notice anything like that but bought a bottle to "save my reef's life". I still have 2/3 of the bottle in my fridge over a year later and one of the healthiest reefs I know. If you are doing regular water changes it may not be necessary for you to dose anything more than calcium, magnesium, and alk.

As for the phytoplankton, I think it is a good idea for any reef and could very well be adding to the changes you are seeing now. Many critters feed on the phyto including copapods and amphipods that you want to prosper in your tank. I also know that some corals take nutrition from phyto. I encourage you to research some of the different options available to you when it comes to phyto. There are many products out on the market, including culturing your own. Personally I've used DT's Phyto for a while but after the Reef Nutrition talk at the previous SDMAS meeting, I've been looking forward to trying PhytoFeast. I've tried them all and haven't really noticed a difference, due to the fact that I haven't really settled into a schedule or a standardized dosing method. If I'm at my tank, (which resides 30 mins away from me) I toss some in.

Its been a while since your last update. How are things?

[RedEye]

I think the added flow, and cutting back on adding "products" is what's making your diffrence

I've tried bioplankton, reef plankton, DT's, ect ect ect ect ect
DT's is the only one I've noticed any REAL effect on, even then, your mainly just feeding the critters on your reef, not your corals

Like Jess said, with regular water changes, all you should need to add is Ca, Alk, and Mag

[JohnDinSD]

Well, the tank is doing better by the week. I have stopped the Reef Solution all together, but I am still feeding the Bioplankton daily. I have moved the corals around to find the best location. I have added two fish, a green coral goby and a tail spot blenney. GCG has setlled in nicely, blenney was just added yesterday. All of my corals have either recovered or are recovering. I am happy with the progress, patience is the key! Flat worms are alive and well, but are not increasing in number as far as I can tell.

[nahtanoj]

good to hear things are looking up for you. stick with it and keep us posted.

[JohnDinSD]

OK, here we go again with another pest. Now the vermetid snails are getting out of control. My water parameters are great, Po4=0 and No3=0.5. The only cause that I can think of is the addition of Phyto-Feast, which I am planning to stop. My concern is my feather duster. Will he be able to filter enough food to survive. Tank is 30 gallon Solana that has been running since may. I also have a few SPS corals. Would really like some help with this as these things are multiplying faster than I can remove them. Thanks.

[Jessy]

OK, here we go again with another pest. Now the vermetid snails are getting out of control. My water parameters are great, Po4=0 and No3=0.5. The only cause that I can think of is the addition of Phyto-Feast, which I am planning to stop. My concern is my feather duster. Will he be able to filter enough food to survive. Tank is 30 gallon Solana that has been running since may. I also have a few SPS corals. Would really like some help with this as these things are multiplying faster than I can remove them. Thanks.

napalm and a flame thrower

[LarryM]

A little drastic there Jessy ROTFL

Try these links

http://www.hopsreef.com/vermetidinfo.html

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-01/rs/index.php


Here's a reply to a similar question. This was posted by Anthony Calfo on the WetWebMedia forums:

as you might guess, they are not growing from thin air - or water as it were - but rather, they are filter feeders that are flourishing because of excess nutrients. Better nutrient export (or limiting import) will easy check these creatures and force them to wane. If skimmer performance has waned (less than several dark cups of skimmate weekly minimum), or if the water change schedule has been too modest/small all along and caught up with you (20% per month or less), or if feeding habits are sloppy like mine . like thawing frozen foods but not decanting the thawed pack juice which is "rocket fuel" for growing nuisance algae, sponges or Vermetids in this case. Some possibilities to consider. But I can reassure you my friend... control the nutrients and you will control their growth. There is no "reef safe predator" on these snails for the aquarium. Anthony

[JohnDinSD]

Thanks Anthony.
Should I stop the Phyto-Feast? Do I really need it and will my feather duster be OK w/o it?
I do a 5 gallon water change religeously every Sunday and my No3 is 0.5 and Po4 is 0. I was feeding a little heavy for a while as my Assessor will only eat a small amount at a time, I am cutting back on that.

Thanks.

[SDguy]

Thanks Anthony.
Should I stop the Phyto-Feast? Do I really need it and will my feather duster be OK w/o it?
I do a 5 gallon water change religeously every Sunday and my No3 is 0.5 and Po4 is 0. I was feeding a little heavy for a while as my Assessor will only eat a small amount at a time, I am cutting back on that.

Thanks.

I would stop the phyto. I've never actually seen a feather duster starve to death, that I am aware of :)

[JohnDinSD]

Thanks Peter.